An interview from around 2000 -- just recovered.
I don't know who the interviewer is, but if you do, or if you are this person, let me know.
What do you read these days?
One of the things I regret most about a busy life teaching and writing books that involve research is that I almost never get to read for pleasure. What I read is: my students’ work, which is deeply interesting and gratifying (no kidding – I know more about what smart 20-year-olds are thinking and doing than almost any man my age); books for review (just now Thomas Berger’s latest, watch the Washington Post for my opinion); and books for research (currently books about Byron or his times.) If I could read books, I’d read Peter Carey and Phillip Pullman.
Were you a writer as a child? That is, did
you make up your own stories?
The
first story I remember writing was called “The Bloody Knife.” I was perhaps
eight. The premise was that an
apparition of an enormous blood-dripping knife appeared in the sky over the
city, and the next day dreadful crimes were discovered to have been
committed. I just couldn’t ever figure
out how to resolve this wonderful premise.
Why
do you write genre?
Do you feel a stronger affinity for one genre or another? Do you necessarily
believe in the fantasy world or are you more concerned with reflecting the real
world through a mirror?
Nabokov
said that the great novels of the realist tradition, like War and Peace and Madame
Bovary, are actually great fairy tales.
“Genre” and “realistic” are not opposites, exactly, though they stand at
right angles to one another. I have
written novels labeled genre, and they follow genre rules; none of my books, so
labeled or not, reflect the world as in a mirror – except the one that Alice
passed through.
I
don’t use fiction to present any beliefs of my own about the spiritual realm
(if any.) I don’t believe in fairies,
astrology, or alien visitations, and I think it unlikely we will ever reach
other stars in person. I write fictions.
Who
is your ideal reader?
Someone
who will read every word; who will read it twice, if he liked it once; who
doesn’t mind (and sometimes gets) my allusions to the body of Western culture
and literature that I carry with me; who is willing to play a game, pick up my
clues, and follow my thought – and who laughs at my jokes – and knows they’re jokes. I have the suspicion that most of them live
in the Indian subcontinent, but since my books haven’t reached there much, I
can’t be sure.
How
do you write? Do you plan out your books before you start? Do you write every
day?
I
sort of excavate my books, more than I plan them. I tend to see them in advance like a broad
sierra I must climb, with foothills, and subsidiary peaks, and a central massif to attack (the climax) and a long
decline or sudden drop. I don’t write
every day, though I would like to be able to.
When my children were very young, I used to get up at 4:45 AM and write
till they woke up at 7. Now they get up
at 6, and it no longer works. I write a
lot out of sequence -- I write what I can imagine today, which isn’t
necessarily the next scene in time order.
If you could trace the composition process of a book of mine, it would
look a little like the image of your computer defragmenting itself, pulling
bits from every part of the disk and putting it in time order. Sort of.
How did your first book sale come about?
My
first published novel was The Deep, a
SF novel. I gave it to Ace, which was
then publishing a striking series of highly original paperbacks called Ace
Science Fiction Specials. After a year
of its not being read, I demanded (well, requested) the book be returned to
me. On leaving the building, I had a
choice – I could carry it to Harper’s, which then published original hardback
SF; or Doubleday. Doubleday was closer,
and I went there. They bought it ($1500 advance) and prepared it for
publication, not knowing that upstairs in the real books division, another book
with the same title was being published -- this one by Peter Benchley. They asked me later if I would consider
changing my title (though mine technically came first.) I said no, and never asked them how much
they’d pay -- for which I’m sort of sorry now.
Morrow,
part of HarperCollins, evolutionary descendant of Harper’s, is now my
publisher.
Of your own books, do you have a
favorite? Was it because of the idea, the characters, your life situation while
you wrote it, the way it turned out, something else?
I
feel fondly about several, for different reasons. Engine Summer (which was the first
completed, at least in one form, though the third published) for teaching me to
write, and for how I learned to make a world both personal and external to
me. Little,
Big for being all that I hoped it would be, and for the certainty and
delight with which it was written. Daemonomania for being flawed and the
hardest of them all to write, and yet (in my view) struggling to shore finally
and bravely. Nabokov (my old and original mentor, sorry for how often he
intrudes here) when asked what his favorite of his books was, always answered
“The next one.”
What other writers do you feel you have
something in common with?
I
would think readers would be able to see the genetic relation between books of
mine and Walter de la Mare’s Memoirs of a
Midget, Chesterton’s The Man who was
Thursday, Thomas Pynchon’s The Crying
of Lot 49, Richard Hughes’s A High
Wind in Jamaica, Virginia Woolf’s Orlando,
Stevenson’s New Arabian Nights, and
Lewis Carroll, Looking -glass more
than Wonderland. They may not, however; but they will see
other true connections I can’t. (Readers
and reviewers have made comparison to Thomas Mann, Robertson Davies, and Ray
Bradbury, none of which strike me as relevant.)
I resemble Paul Park and Tom Disch in writing books within genre that
are worthy of the most perspicuous reader’s attention, though rarely getting
it.
What does genre writing offer that
mainstream fiction cannot? Why is genre gaining popularity among readers?
Genre
fiction retains, in a way that mainstream fiction does less immediately, the
roots of story. The realm of story is a
counter or complementary world where we know ourselves to be at home. The
connection between Tolkien and me, or between Star Wars and T.H. White, or The
Matrix and The Tempest, is what
of the realm of story retain and bear away -- which you could say “never grows
old” but which you could also say can stand endless repetition in different
keys. Why we like the same stories
repeated endlessly I’m not sure, but maybe it’s related to other needs we have,
that we don’t get tired of. Mainstream
stories are less reliable in delivering these things, though their pleasures -- surprise, knowledge,
reflection of how we live now, life advice, insight -- are rarer, and maybe
harder to achieve. I’m not sure genre
fiction is growing in popularity so much as it is multiplying many instances,
not necessarily needed.
How do you feel about the future? What makes
you the most hopeful and the most fearful? Does writing have a role in shaping
people's worldview? How did the '60s affect yours personal views? Did the
opportunities that opened up during that particular period seem to become apparent
towards the end of the last century?
My first-written novel, called Learning to Live with it (later
appearing as Engine Summer) was about
the far future. When I was conceiving
it, I thought I knew one thing about the future -- that it was certain not to
resemble our imaginings and projections.
So I discarded all the things that looked likely, based on current
trends: technological advances, overpopulation, international networks of trade
and competition, advanced weaponry. I
erased cities, governments, even literacy, and yet I imagined that out of the
unlikeliest bits of the present, new spiritual trends could arise, and a new
language in which to express them. None
of what I imagined has come any closer to appearing in our world or our lives,
and the book now reads as though the world it portrays could have been
conceived at no other time than when it was, 1968. But I knew that it would. Sort of.
The future (this idea is the basis of my story Great Work of Time, included in the new collection) stands at right
angles to the stream of time, not ahead; futures progress on endlessly in that
direction, and we can imagine them, but when the timestream has actually moved
on, they are left behind.
What are you currently working on?
I’m
just finishing a novel which could be described as being about Byron, but which
is actually odder, or more impertinent, than that: it is a novel by Byron. I’ve always loved Byron -- I once wrote a
play about Byron and Shelley, and a story told by Byron is in my new collection
of stories called Novelties and Souvenirs.
I love his letters and diaries -- more than his poetry. I’ve always wished he’d written a novel -- it
would have been great. So now he has.
I gather that the sequence which began with
Aegypt was originally meant to be one book. How did you come to write three
books with a projected fourth based on the Zodiac?
I
can hardly trace the process now. I can’t imagine how I could ever have thought
that the material I had conceived could have been fitted into one book. It’s likely that the change came as I began
to work on the modern story -- which was not part of the original conception.
It was to have been all historical. I
became so intrigued by the new parts that they expanded steadily in thought,
and absorbed more and more material, some of it autobiographical, far more
simply fun to think about, including modern werewolves, the “Ars Auto-amatoria,
or Every Man his Own Wife,” the sex club MM, etc., etc. (Even more was conceived, and left out.) The
astrological arrangement was self-evident once the book expanded beyond one: it
would be two volumes of four parts, then four volumes. I believe now that what it should have been
is four groups of three volumes, making twelve in all -- but I can’t go back
now.
You almost have a pessimistic Gnostic view
of the world, as Frances Yates might define it. Does this come from any one
particular episode or school of thought? How did you come to explore Yates and
the Hermetic philosophy?
I don’t have a pessimistic Gnostic
view. The Gnostic mythos, which I
discovered some 25 years ago, is of central importance to the Aegypt series; I
found it first in a classic book by Hans Jonas called The Gnostic Religion. I find
it, as mythology, not only deeply poignant in itself, but tremendously useful
in fiction: the world inside fiction is indeed a Gnostic universe. I have also come to see how much SF, fantasy,
and romance fiction embodies a (often corrupted or incomplete) Gnostic mythos,
from Superman to The Matrix. I don’t
subscribe to it as a vision of the world I live in, except in dreamtime. I came to Yates through a chance discovery of
her book The Art of Memory, which was
indeed a turning point, and which has left traces in every book of mine from The Deep onwards; through that book I
discovered her work on Bruno, but in both Gnosticism and Bruno studies, I have
taken more from the work of the Romanian philospher Ioan Culianu.
Reality, of varying types, becomes very
thin, revealing a secondary world in all of your books. Is this from any
particular viewpoint or is just the way that opens more possibilities for your
books?
In
our shared world, reality thins, and
reveals secondary worlds -- inside books or art or human culture. In books, that secondary world (made by the
writer) can also thin, and show a secondary world (or tertiary -- secondary to
the world the characters think is primary, though writer and readers know
better). Therefore the characters experience
what we, out here, experience -- that there is a counter-world, and it may be
our own creation, or maybe not. You’ll
notice how often the way into the secondary worlds that characters in my books
discover is through books.
How far is the Translator about salvation
from the personal to the world?
What
a good way of putting it. The Gnostics
said: I believe in resurrection, but
only before death. I think Kit’s
encounter with an angel (which is one version or vision of what the book is, a
vision Kit finds convincing, as fact and then as metaphor) is what makes her
return to the world possible -- her salvation.
Falin, the poet, dies or disappears or never was -- and in his
vanishing, gives Kit a chance to become embodied.
Can either literature or language, by
expressing opinions or rendering abstract ideas into concrete form, bring about
change in the world?
John
Bayley, the English critic, points out in a review of a poet’s work, in which
the poet broods on his own inability to cause true transformations in the
world, that in fact transformation is
what poetry can achieve -- its true description, true limning, is impossible in
the world of words. Transformation’s
easy. This seems particularly relevant
to fantasy, which might be described as the poetry of prose fiction: transformation is possible but true description lies bound in the land of
words. On the other hand, words are
things, as Byron says: one drop of ink can kill or save. There are books good and bad (as books) that
have done that work. Upton Sinclair
changed America’s meat-packing industry with a story (The Jungle). It’s not a
great book. It’s said that The Sorrows of Young Werther caused a
wave of suicides in Romantic Europe. But
they say the same about Kurt Cobain.
How far is your writing an exploration of
the art of the novel and the idea of Story?
It’s
central. Not only does the impulse arise
from the kind of romance that I have chosen (or that has chosen me), but the
more I have written the more I have pondered the existential dilemma of
characters in books, and how far it maybe possible for them to perceive it:
that is, that they are in a story, and the ending will determine all that came
before, a reversal of cause and effect that we sense in our world only rarely,
in dreams and religious visions. It
seems only natural to me that characters, like readers, will wonder how the
story they dimly glimpse themselves in will turn out.
In
terms of the novel, it might be said that I have tried to write novels about
what it is like to be in a romance, or a story: many are not themselves
romances, but they are about the possibility of romance, and also its terrors:
that stories determine us, and that stories end.
Each character seems to have defined
their own roles and parts within the book.
Is this a by-product of the narrative or is
it a conscious exploration of these roles by yourself?
Christopher
Isherwood said that writing a book was for him like a process of separating
Siamese twins: When one character -- a person somewhat like himself -- could be
divided into two different characters, and those characters turned to face each
other, he was on his way. My stories
tend to evolve when two contrary or non-intersecting ideas come together in
one, and characters find themselves under the compulsion or desire to live in
both. Beyond that I don’t think I
understand the import of this question. For
the most part I don’t copy characters from the world (sometimes I borrow
physical persons, or their life circumstances, but it’s more like casting them
for a part than describing them.) Which
means the characters somehow are born of me in some way. I think this is common, maybe inevitable.
How far is Little, Big a comment upon the fantasy of Tolkien?
Not
at all. I can hardly think of two books
more different, at least two that reside in the same part of the
bookstore. I certainly didn’t have
Tolkien in mind, the way I did have
Arthur Rackham, Lewis Carroll, Watteau, Winsor McKay and Walt Kelly in mind, if
not all at once, in various scenes.
How far is Engine, Summer an exploration of
sainthood?
I
don’t think it is at all. I think it’s
an exploration of storytelling – which is what sainthood is in the book. At one point Rush says that there is no more
unselfish love than that of a young speaker for the old saint he will someday
become – a line I took from Nabokov (!), who said there is no more pure love
than the love of a young writer for the old writer he will someday be. The ambition of Truthful Speakers to become
saints – to become those who speak in such a way that, through the stories they
tell of themselves, we see ourselves, and see that all people are to
some degree the same – is the true ambition of a writer. I don’t think I understood this wholly as I
wrote the book, but it seems obvious to me now.
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